Chang: You have been fond of traditional Chinese calligraphy for a long time. In which year did you start practicing calligraphy? Did you like calligraphy and painting in the same period?
Li: I started drawing when I was a child. It was an innate hobby. I wrote calligraphy because my neighbor was a middle school teacher. He taught his son calligraphy. I saw it and liked it very much. I told my parents that I wanted to write calligraphy, so my father bought me a bunch of brushes from the city. I started writing at home, and soon I could write couplets for my neighbors. I am all self-taught, after reading a book "Poetry and Rhyme", I can write poems and couplets. It was probably ten years old then. Later, an art teacher who taught in high school came to my elementary school to train several students to participate in the county competition. Because I painted well, I was appreciated by the teacher. After that, I took the initiative to go to high school to find the teacher to learn painting, and there were several high school students who also learned painting together. I studied painting until I graduated from elementary school, and I didn't have time to write and draw in middle school.
I have always studied very well and always ranked first in the school. My ideal at that time was to be admitted to Peking University. Because I have read many books from the Republic of China, I have a special fantasy about Peking University Yanyuan. At that time, I was good at both arts and sciences, and I was especially good at writing, and I was also obsessed with Madame Curie for a while. I think maybe I will become a writer or a scientist in the future, and only regard art as my hobby.
But fate changed suddenly. After graduating from the third grade of junior high school, due to family changes, I had to give up high school and apply for a normal school instead. I studied at Harbin Normal School for three years. In fact, after graduating from the normal school, I can return to my hometown and have a very enviable teaching job. But I still want to go to college. So in the last six months, I went to an art class to learn sketching and color by myself. Then I went to a high school to make up for two months of cultural lessons, and applied for Harbin Normal University. And was admitted with excellent professional grades. So, I'm back to art. This may be fate.
Chang: It seems that you majored in meticulous painting of Chinese painting in your undergraduate and graduate studies? Is this related to your calligraphy?
Li: My undergraduate degree is in art education, and the professional direction of our class is design, which I don't like very much. So I often go to the Chinese Department to attend classes. The Chinese Department has particularly good teachers. It was also at that time that I started writing poetry and published some poems.
In my school, there used to be a large number of excellent scholars who were sent to the Great Northern Wilderness. You Shou is one. She is a professor in the Department of History of Normal University, a student of Hu Xiaoshi, and studies oracle bone inscriptions. She is a famous scholar and calligrapher. She is as famous as Xiao Xian. When I arrived at Normal University, she had already passed away. But many people talked about her, about her knowledge and calligraphy, and respectfully called her Mr. I then admired her and made her my role model, thinking that I would become a scholar and calligrapher like her in the future. I was also lucky enough to see her authentic works, which was the first time I understood the spirit of gold and stone in calligraphy.
That summer vacation, He Jiaying from Tianjin Academy of Fine Arts came to Normal University to give lectures, and I participated in his 7-day training class. He was already a well-known meticulous painter in China at that time. Teacher He is good at portraying innocent girls. He also asked me to be his model and drew a sketch for me, which was later selected into his album and published. It may also be that I got encouragement, so after graduating from the normal school, I decided to learn Chinese painting. So I went to Tianjin Academy of Fine Arts to study Chinese painting.
During the further study period, I took various courses, from meticulous painting to freehand brushwork to landscape painting. Two years later, I felt that I had some foundation, and the only thing I lacked was that my calligraphy had not improved much, and I became more and more determined that if I wanted to paint Chinese painting well, my calligraphy must be good. It was also a coincidence that I met a teacher from the oil painting department of the Academy of Fine Arts at this time. He also wrote calligraphy. Through him, I learned about the Guangxi phenomenon and Xiliuyin. After being introduced, I went to Guangxi to find Mr. Chen Guobin and Mr. Zhang Yuxiang to learn calligraphy. At that time, I just wrote every day, from morning to night, for two years, and published "Li Xinmo Lin Jiu Hua Tie" in the middle. After leaving Guangxi, I taught while practicing calligraphy, from morning to night every day, and gradually grasped the essentials of calligraphy.
In 2005, I was admitted to the postgraduate study of the Chinese Painting Department of the Sky Academy of Fine Arts. My supervisor was Mr. Yan Binghui, and I studied modern ink painting. Teacher Yan's teaching is relatively open, encouraging students to try more. When I was in graduate school, I still focused on ink painting and calligraphy. In the second half of graduate school, I went to the Modern Art Institute to teach and came into contact with contemporary art, so I quickly turned to contemporary art.
So my span is relatively large, from traditional meticulous flower and bird figures, to modern ink calligraphy, and then to contemporary art. My study experience is also relatively complicated, not so smooth sailing, there are many changes and twists and turns, and I have experienced a lot.
Chang: Among the traditional Chinese calligraphers or literati painters of past dynasties, which calligrapher or painter has the greatest influence on you? Why?
Li: First of all, it's Bada Shanren. When I opened his album for the first time, I was deeply attracted by his paintings. I seemed to be brought to a distant and vast world, and I disappeared in his paintings. His calligraphy and painting are one, like flying in the air. Among the painters, I also like Ni Zan and Hong Ren, who are both monks. I like the two kings of Wei and Jin, Zhang Xu and Huai Su of the Tang Dynasty, and Yang Ningshi in calligraphy. In modern times, it is Master Hongyi. His former residence is next to the Tianjin Academy of Fine Arts, so I sometimes go there to have a look. There are some inscriptions there. I remember reading his biography, there was a trivial matter, every time he sat down, he would first dust the seat with his sleeves, so as not to kill some small creatures that landed on the chair. Although this is a small matter, it gave me a great shock, and I still remember it to this day. There is also Inoue Kazuo who has a great influence on me. His dedication and devotion to calligraphy admire me.
Chang: You have persisted in the field of traditional painting for many years. In which year did you start to have the idea of doing performance art? What caused you to start having such an idea?
Li: I became interested in performance art when I was learning calligraphy. I accidentally opened a magazine and saw a photo of Abramović's performance, the Star of David drawn on her abdomen with a razor blade. I was shocked by that picture and looked at it for a long time. I vaguely felt that at that moment, something was implanted in my mind, it was like a seed waiting for time. Almost all of the works I saw later that could attract my attention were hers.
Later, after I was admitted to the graduate school of Tianjin Academy of Fine Arts, about half a year later, I went to the School of Modern Art to teach a contemporary art class related to calligraphy. That academy is completely different from the Chinese painting department I was in, it is another system of contemporary art. So I started to get in touch with contemporary art. Contemporary art opened up a new world for me. I found that art can be conceptual and can be expressed through different media. I was extremely excited, as if I had finally found the path of art that I should be doing. During that time, I almost broke with my past self, put down the brush I had been holding for many years, read contemporary art theory every day, and started to create. I also write critical articles, and both works and articles are published on the "Art International" website at that time, so there are invitations for some exhibitions at home and abroad. The first performance work is "The Death of Xinkaihe". Next, I participated in the 2008 Dadaoxian International Art Festival, and I did "A Farewell Ceremony". At that time, I just graduated, just ended a relationship, and was alone with my newborn child. It was a particularly low period, and doing performance was also the most direct expression.
Chang: Over the years, you have created a lot of performance art. Which performance art or installation art is of great significance to your artistic career in your impression? Can you share it?
Li: "The Death of Xinkaihe" is a representative work. This work should be my first performance work. I see that many articles studying my works mention this work. This work has been exhibited at the Toronto Photography Biennale in Canada, leaving a deep impression on many audiences. I also received poems written specifically for this work by two Canadian poets. The next "A Farewell Ceremony" also aroused a lot of repercussions and was selected into "Thirty Years of Chinese Performance Art" and exhibited at the Minsheng Art Museum. The exhibition selects one performance work from each year in the past thirty years, and my year is 2008. Another performance "Memory" was invited to be exhibited at the World Culture Museum in Sweden. The extended work "Love is Colder than Death" was performed at the Bonn Women's Museum in Germany. This series of works is related to women's experience, and it also resonates with many people. This work has also become one of my representative works. "Landscape Painting in Water" is also mentioned in many articles as one of my works related to ecology. In addition, I have also done many other works, such as the "Relationship Series", and a series of behaviors related to Paul Celan's poems: such as "People who drink blue", "Black Snow", "Urn of Ashes" and so on. Doing installations started in 15 years. In the solo exhibition in Germany in 2015, I combined installation and performance. The more representative one is "Isolation". Afterwards, I also made a series of installation works "Heavy Fog" related to smog.
Chang: It is very difficult for a person to span his thinking, because everyone is locked in his own spiritual perception level by his own solidified values, and it is difficult to go beyond his own cognition to affirm the existence of another value. From your own traditional cognition, and then break through this traditional blockade, you need strong ideological power as your own support, and you need keen wisdom to break through your own multiple obstacles. What do you think? Do you have any practice in your life? If there is practice, how do you practice yourself?
Li: Making art itself is practice. I believe there is no art, only artists. What kind of art a person will make. For me, it is through art, a process of constantly understanding myself, opening myself up, and transcending myself. I always think that art is not asking for outside, but constantly asking for inside, it is a process of constant questioning. I have to be with my heart all the time and have uninterrupted conversations. I don't like excitement, I'm afraid of crowds, I don't like being disturbed, so my favorite state is to be alone. I can't fit into groups, and I can't follow others. This may be innate. I have liked to be alone since I was a child, and I feel that I have been living in another time and space. Always follow the call of an inner voice to exist.
If you talk about the practice of life, the best practice is to read books. From childhood to adulthood, my only inseparable friend is books. Opening a book will connect with the world in the book, receive the information and energy transmitted by the words, and start a dialogue with those great souls. I like to read all kinds of books: religion, philosophy, literature, from ancient times to the present, from east to west. I also always feel that these are the foundation of art. I don't divide culture, I never think this is the East and that is the West, I don't deliberately look for differences, I always try to find common things, look for connections. I think human beings are one, the universe is one, and every discipline is interconnected. I have always used this concept to read and look at things, so for me things are not separated, but connected. So from calligraphy to contemporary, many people find it incredible, but there is no obstacle for me. And I like to shuttle in different fields, constantly switch the way of thinking, and use different ways of expression to express different feelings. Ultimately, I hope to get closer and closer to a state of freedom. Gain spiritual freedom and freedom of expression.
Chang: What kind of opportunity made you start thinking about feminism? Feminism is a huge proposition and a difficult proposition to control. How do you position yourself in relation to feminism in your artistic creation? What do you think is the most important and crucial point of feminism in our current era?
Li: When I started to enter contemporary art, I started to get in touch with feminism. Because feminist art is an important part of contemporary art. I read a book on feminist art and was particularly shocked by the works. Those arts that challenge the limit and break the conventions touched me, especially the works created by many female artists using their bodies as a medium. Then I read many books on feminist theory, from Beauvoir's "The Second Sex" to Butler's "Gender Trouble". The more books I read, the more I understand this society and the problems that happen to me. Looking back on my experience, it all confirms the theory of "the second sex". It is through feminist theory that I can see and analyze myself more clearly. My family since I was a child, and my marriage and love after I grew up. In fact, feminism gave me a key, which allowed me to open up many knots in my heart, and observe myself more from a social and cultural perspective. I also saw my own being shaped, and my own lack of independence, so feminism made me stronger and stronger. I look at myself and analyze myself from the perspective of feminism, starting from the perspective of "the personal is the political", opening my wounds one by one, and throwing out the most real self, a self full of scars. These experiences were hidden when I was writing calligraphy and painting ink, and were fully released only when I was doing contemporary art, especially feminist art. This is also my truest side, a self that has been unearthed from the subconscious. So my feminist art is not to flaunt something and do feminist art, those works are all about the real me. And I also know that there are many people who have the same experience as me, but they are unable to speak out. When I speak out and do it, they will see and be moved. Because I am one with them. So I said: I open my wound so that they can see their own pain.
I have done a series of works based on individual experience. Now I am doing the "Me Too" project, which is about the experiences of other women. The biggest feeling of doing this project is that there are too many girls who have been sexually assaulted to varying degrees. Not only sexual assault, but also domestic violence, and all kinds of unspoken rules. Fundamentally speaking, patriarchy is born with patriarchy and clan system, and it is also integrated with totalitarian ideology, while feminism is a concept of democratic society. The West's more thorough move towards democracy began with advocating for women's rights. An important entry point is to explore body politics and social structure through women's issues.
Chang: It is a very valuable spirit for an artist to use his own wisdom and position to stick to his own thoughts or values? Using one's own artistic language to intervene in the complex social issues of the moment, and conduct in-depth excavation and analysis, this is a kind of responsibility. Feminism is also a deep social issue from a certain perspective? How do you understand this kind of thinking?
Li: Feminism is first and foremost a dimension of facing reality, that is, it is related to the concept of equality. Now we see more and more female faces and names appearing in politics, economy, science, art and other fields, which was unimaginable a hundred years ago. This is because women have equal rights to education, voting and work. Now we see how the Taliban treats women: prohibiting them from going out, prohibiting them from studying, and prohibiting them from participating in social activities. Everyone feels that these behaviors are completely unacceptable. But for centuries a hundred years ago, women were treated this way. A hundred years ago, Chinese women's feet were crippled and they could not get out of the room.
Without the democratic revolution and the feminist movement, women all over the world would still live like women in Afghanistan. So how to treat women is the dividing line between civilization and barbarism.
On the other hand, feminism has changed people's concepts and perspectives on things, as well as their ways of thinking. From feminism to post-feminism, feminist thought is actually constantly changing. I learned the concept of social shaping from feminism. Many things we take for granted and natural are actually illusions and do not exist. For example, men should be masculine, women should be gentle, docile and so on. Simple dichotomy cannot sum up such diverse personalities of human beings. This is related to the knowledge system of centralism and dualism that we have constructed. And feminism is precisely to deconstruct this system and pursue gender diversity. Try to let human beings untie the shackles of ideas and respect each individual itself.
Chang: Besides feminism, do you have any other ideological plans? Of course, the artistic means of expressing one's thoughts can be diversified, such as: painting, behavior, installation, writing, etc., but the planning of the ideological system is more important than the artistic means. In your years of artistic career, can you summarize what ideological plans you have had?
Li: Actually, feminism is only a part of my thought. My thinking is not limited to this. Instead, it mainly thinks about the concept of time and space, the origin of the world, and the origin of consciousness. Specifically, I am interested in the composition of the universe and the existence of human beings. I am looking for answers through religion, philosophy, and science, which is like a puzzle-solving process. But I always feel that there is a world inside that is connected to the universe.
The first direction is about memory, imagination and dreams, which belong to the category of psychology. I try to understand human consciousness and subconsciousness through self-analysis, and how memory and imagination are produced. I want to know how the inner time and space of human beings operate and how perception and thinking work. The direction of this research is art and psychoanalysis.
The second direction is about social thinking, which is about the reality level. Because there will be strong empathy, many people's misfortunes and the destruction of nature will make me feel heartache. Feminism, ecologism and liberalism entered my art because of this empathy. I want people to see those hurt women, children, animals, and every plant and tree. I hope this world will tend to be more equal and free, instead of control and violence.
The third direction is thinking about the future. In recent years, I have been reading some books on astrophysics, quantum mechanics, and biology, and this knowledge has given me great inspiration. This may be the dimension I will enter next.
Chang: How do you connect yourself with the current situation of Chinese contemporary art? What do you think of Chinese contemporary art?
Li: I started to do contemporary art from reading and my own experience. After reading the history of contemporary art, I just need to have a dialogue with a few masters I like, and I don't read much about the rest. The next step is to do your own work. I entered the art world almost from the Internet, and I don't have much interaction with the Chinese contemporary art world. I don't pay much attention to what's going on in the contemporary art world. Because it feels more like a circle and network of relationships, as well as some social activities related to money and power. But compared to the painting and calligraphy circles, the contemporary art circle is much better. The painting and calligraphy circles are the world of the Artists Association and the Calligraphers Association, bureaucratic and pedantic. Those who do contemporary art are at least outside the system and connected with the international art world. There are also some individual artists who are also very good, and they are relatively independent. Now, the whole society is engulfed by nationalism, and the living space of contemporary art is getting smaller and smaller. Maybe many years later, looking back at today, it is just a special historical memory. Most of my exhibitions are held abroad, and I only have one English website, through which many people and exhibitions find me. I always feel that it is most important for an artist to do his own work well, and everything else is secondary.
Chang: How do you understand the relationship between yourself and Western contemporary art? What do you think of our contemporary art and Western contemporary art?
Li: I grew up reading books from the East and the West since I was a child, that is, both cultures are part of me, and they are organically combined to become who I am now. The country has boundaries, but culture and art have no boundaries. People in every country in the world can understand Shakespeare and Munch. So I won't deliberately emphasize my own national identity, I hope to think about art from a human perspective. I will transform everything I have learned into my own understanding. Compared with Chinese culture, Western culture may have a deeper influence on me. Philosophy and literature are basically Western. For art, I am more willing to accept the concept of Western art.
Chinese contemporary art is a part of the entire contemporary art trend, and it is an inevitable product of China's joining the global economic community. Under globalization, it is natural to communicate using an internationally accepted language. But just as many people criticize, many Chinese artists' works lack originality, and there are too many imitations and copycats. There are also different states of artists. Most Western artists are relatively pure, while Chinese artists have relatively complicated mentalities.
Chang: Some people say that painting is dead and contemporary art is dead. What do you think?
Li: I think art itself will always exist, but the form of artistic expression will change. Society is constantly developing and changing, and new technologies and new concepts will appear in different social stages, and naturally art will also change. In the agricultural era, it was a state of integration between man and nature, and handwork was the mode of production at that time, so the emergence of painting was inevitable. Canvas, paper and paint all come from nature and handwork. In the industrial society, people are separated from nature, and large-scale industrial production and machine manufacturing have become the mode of production. After the camera came out, painting has actually gradually declined. This is the era of "mechanical reproduction" as Benjamin said. So the emergence of contemporary art is inevitable, because there are so many media of expression. "Ready-made" and "Pop Art" are all related to commodities and commercial society; media art, light art, video art, photography art, Op art, these are all closely related to new technologies and new media connected. So art is a product of the times, related to specific social conditions and modes of production.
Contemporary art has also begun to change as it has developed to the present. This is because the world today is entering the third revolution in the mode of production, that is, the advent of the era of artificial intelligence. In the era of the industrial revolution, machines replaced human hands and feet; now machines are gradually replacing human brains for thinking, that is, humans are evolving from natural humans to mechanical humans. Our world today is controlled by big data, genetic technology, artificial intelligence, nanotechnology, and virtual reality. The mode of production and the way people perceive things are undergoing tremendous changes. Then the concept and expression of art will naturally
Chang. Therefore, the concept of contemporary art that we once defined will not be once and for all. Now it relies on continuous upgrading to adapt to the times, but in the end there will be completely different artistic concepts. This is for sure. This is actually already happening. What do you think art is? Is the existence of art meaningful? If so, where is the meaning?
Li: It is difficult to define art because it is constantly evolving. Art in the modernist period is about aesthetics, and contemporary art is about expressing ideas. I think art is creation. Art is first of all related to perception, it expands people's perception and discovers more possibilities in this world; then it is the way of expression, art is a unique way of speaking, expressing feelings and cognition through this way of speaking; art can change people's ideas , providing a different perspective on things.
Art is like looking up at the starry sky, we will not ask whether the existence of the starry sky is meaningful? The meaning of art is different in different eras: in the religious world, art is a channel for people to communicate with God; in modern society, art can express emotions and comfort the soul; in contemporary art, art can shape society and change lives. But generally speaking, art can influence people's perception and shape the spiritual world.
From an individual point of view, the meaning of art is different for everyone. For me personally, when I recall the first time I saw Bada Shanren's paintings, Inoue Yuichi's calligraphy, and Abramović's performance art, the joy after being shrouded in aura and being hit by an invisible force The experience of shock is beyond words, these works give me great energy and change my perception. These arts all act on my consciousness and give me the power to transcend my own limitations.
Every time there is a performance scene, there are always people crying and moved. I often receive emails from universities all over the world. Many of them are undergraduates, graduate students, and doctoral students who are studying. They see my works on my foreign website, and many people are studying my works. I also often meet some female students who have returned from studying abroad and said that they heard the teacher talk about my works in class. For me, this is the meaning of art, that is, art can infect and act on the soul, can influence the younger generation, can establish a channel for people to connect with each other, and can illuminate those lonely souls.
A work comes from the spiritual world of an artist. When it comes to this world, it carries its own life and energy. It will ignite another life, and meet, gather, and combine with other energies to form part of the neural network of the human spiritual world.